Comments for The Film Book http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook Just another ASC Blog Sites site Mon, 19 Mar 2012 04:21:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= Comment on James Cameron & Vince Pace : 3D cameras & workflows (part 1 of 2) by Cameron Pace 3D Rig and Accompanying Tech |   http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2012/02/11/james-cameron-vince-pace-3d-cameras-workflows-part-1-of-2/#comment-1857 Cameron Pace 3D Rig and Accompanying Tech |   Mon, 19 Mar 2012 04:21:51 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=2126#comment-1857 [...] http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2012/02/11/james-cameron-vince-pace-3d-cameras-workflows-... http://poetzerofilm.com/2011/04/arri-alexa-m-unveiled/ http://www.arri.de/news.html?article=889&cHash=ebfa8ed0b1112b475635b0f01e435b00 [...] [...] http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2012/02/11/james-cameron-vince-pace-3d-cameras-workflows-… http://poetzerofilm.com/2011/04/arri-alexa-m-unveiled/ http://www.arri.de/news.html?article=889&cHash=ebfa8ed0b1112b475635b0f01e435b00 [...]

]]> Comment on 3D Workshop: Edges, Screen, IA by Pete http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2011/11/17/3d-workshop-1/#comment-1635 Pete Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:06:40 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=1862#comment-1635 Sir, 1) There are currently no two filters [red,green,blue-green] when combined reproduce true color - one problem with anaglyph glasses. 2) A more severe problem with anaglyth glasses is what is termed as "ghosting" or more currently in 3D tv lingo as "transferrence" This occurs because many/most analyph glases do not entirely separate light into the left and right eye - some light is passes by BOTH filters - thus some light is seen in the same perspective in both eyes - not natural 3) There is what is termed as a stereo window - it is not physical but optical. In still photography is is approximately at a distance 30 times the separation between the lenses recording the image. Viewing stereo/3D images is truely like looking through a "window". Thinking about the image in this fashion one can understand that recording objects in a scene closer than this "stereo window" distance, unless it is done carefully, will look unrealistic (e.g., like a tree branch seemingly "inside" the window but dut off by the sides of the window. One can violate the rule of no objects closer than the window distance by arranging the object such that it does not insersect the edges of the scene closer than the window - it will appear to come THROUGH the window. One violation of this rule that I've seen is a scene in AVATAR, when the viewer is walking through a vegetation tunnel on 3-4 sides of the image and the vegetation is passing by - yes, "broken" by the scene edges but the visual effect is entirely believeable to the viewewr and enhances the visual experience. 4) The human interocular distance [distance between the eyes] varies greatly, probably like a bell curve, with the median/mean 60-65cm. When a viewer is displayed the far point, or infinity point, in a scene at a separation between the the overlapping two images of more than the viewer's eye separation distance, the viewer must diverge his/her eyes, which is not natural, and will be uncomfortable possibly to the point of pain. On the other end of the scale, the separation between near points and far points of an overlapped image pair [called a stereo pair] produces the 3D effect. And this also is a limitation - a human's field of vision is is very wide, but the portion which we focus is only about 10 degrees - in real life the brain separates out the other objects in the entire field and we only "focus" on the objects in the 10 deg portion. When the viewer is presented an entire 3D scene he/she is forced to focus on the entire scene. If the separation between the near and far points on an overlapping pair is too great, the viewer is forced to only look at portions of the scene - not what the producer wants. The separation distance which a viewer can tolerate comfortably, like acceptable far point separation distance, varies. 5) The separation between far/infinity points can be corrected after image recording, the separation between near and far points can not easily be corrected [distortion would work]. In conclusion, given the physical diversity in humans, it amazes me that 3D movies can be produced which are perceived with "good" 3D effects by a majority of the population. To accomodate more and more of the population, the 3D effects must be "dumbed down". Anyone can create and view a "still" 3D image using only one camera - even a cell phone camera - by separating the distance between the two exposures and combining them on a computer, or looking through a 3D slide viewer or 3D print viewer. So long as the object distances are more than ~30 times the separation distance between the shots, and the amount of stereo depth is kept at a "reasonable amout" [therein is the rub, as I've discussed], stunning results can be achieved. Results such as a 3D image that might mimic Godzilla view of downtown seattle from the SpaceNeedle, Mount St. Helens viewed through the eyes of some alien creature [two shots from a moving plane with probably one mile of separation], small objects as viewed by a lizard/mouse/bird [shot separation very small]. Pete Sir,
1) There are currently no two filters [red,green,blue-green] when combined reproduce true color – one problem with anaglyph glasses.
2) A more severe problem with anaglyth glasses is what is termed as “ghosting” or more currently in 3D tv lingo as “transferrence” This occurs because many/most analyph glases do not entirely separate light into the left and right eye – some light is passes by BOTH filters – thus some light is seen in the same perspective in both eyes – not natural
3) There is what is termed as a stereo window – it is not physical but optical. In still photography is is approximately at a distance 30 times the separation between the lenses recording the image. Viewing stereo/3D images is truely like looking through a “window”. Thinking about the image in this fashion one can understand that recording objects in a scene closer than this “stereo window” distance, unless it is done carefully, will look unrealistic (e.g., like a tree branch seemingly “inside” the window but dut off by the sides of the window. One can violate the rule of no objects closer than the window distance by arranging the object such that it does not insersect the edges of the scene closer than the window – it will appear to come THROUGH the window. One violation of this rule that I’ve seen is a scene in AVATAR, when the viewer is walking through a vegetation tunnel on 3-4 sides of the image and the vegetation is passing by – yes, “broken” by the scene edges but the visual effect is entirely believeable to the viewewr and enhances the visual experience.
4) The human interocular distance [distance between the eyes] varies greatly, probably like a bell curve, with the median/mean 60-65cm. When a viewer is displayed the far point, or infinity point, in a scene at a separation between the the overlapping two images of more than the viewer’s eye separation distance, the viewer must diverge his/her eyes, which is not natural, and will be uncomfortable possibly to the point of pain. On the other end of the scale, the separation between near points and far points of an overlapped image pair [called a stereo pair] produces the 3D effect. And this also is a limitation – a human’s field of vision is is very wide, but the portion which we focus is only about 10 degrees – in real life the brain separates out the other objects in the entire field and we only “focus” on the objects in the 10 deg portion. When the viewer is presented an entire 3D scene he/she is forced to focus on the entire scene. If the separation between the near and far points on an overlapping pair is too great, the viewer is forced to only look at portions of the scene – not what the producer wants. The separation distance which a viewer can tolerate comfortably, like acceptable far point separation distance, varies.
5) The separation between far/infinity points can be corrected after image recording, the separation between near and far points can not easily be corrected [distortion would work].

In conclusion, given the physical diversity in humans, it amazes me that 3D movies can be produced which are perceived with “good” 3D effects by a majority of the population. To accomodate more and more of the population, the 3D effects must be “dumbed down”.

Anyone can create and view a “still” 3D image using only one camera – even a cell phone camera – by separating the distance between the two exposures and combining them on a computer, or looking through a 3D slide viewer or 3D print viewer. So long as the object distances are more than ~30 times the separation distance between the shots, and the amount of stereo depth is kept at a “reasonable amout” [therein is the rub, as I've discussed], stunning results can be achieved. Results such as a 3D image that might mimic Godzilla view of downtown seattle from the SpaceNeedle, Mount St. Helens viewed through the eyes of some alien creature [two shots from a moving plane with probably one mile of separation], small objects as viewed by a lizard/mouse/bird [shot separation very small].

Pete

]]> Comment on James Cameron & Vince Pace : 3D cameras & workflows (part 1 of 2) by Benjamin B http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2012/02/11/james-cameron-vince-pace-3d-cameras-workflows-part-1-of-2/#comment-1525 Benjamin B Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:02:30 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=2126#comment-1525 Dear Oliver F, Thank you for your comment. I agree with you that 3D is not essential to cinema. We've had 100 years of great movies without it. However I do think other filmmakers are "having fun with 3D", including Peter Jackson, Ang Lee, Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg and Wim Wenders... I have seen films where 3D doesn't add much to the story, and others where it does. I believe we need to let the medium mature before we evaluate its narrative impact. Finally, although Cameron and Pace are obviously good businessmen, I believe that they are also truly passionate about 3D as the future of cinema. All the best, Benjamin B Dear Oliver F,

Thank you for your comment.

I agree with you that 3D is not essential to cinema. We’ve had 100 years of great movies without it.

However I do think other filmmakers are “having fun with 3D”, including Peter Jackson, Ang Lee, Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg and Wim Wenders…

I have seen films where 3D doesn’t add much to the story, and others where it does. I believe we need to let the medium mature before we evaluate its narrative impact.

Finally, although Cameron and Pace are obviously good businessmen, I believe that they are also truly passionate about 3D as the future of cinema.

All the best,

Benjamin B

]]> Comment on James Cameron & Vince Pace : 3D cameras & workflows (part 1 of 2) by Oliver F. http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2012/02/11/james-cameron-vince-pace-3d-cameras-workflows-part-1-of-2/#comment-1524 Oliver F. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:19:46 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=2126#comment-1524 My problem in the first place: Nobody really needs 3D. The more I listen to Cameron/Pace, the more I feel like I am being sold on their new business plan which basically tries to make sure, that they profit from every single big budget 3D-film that is ever going to be shot in the future. Quite a clever strategy, I have to say: First you make propaganda in order to install 3D, which nobody needs. Neither the filmmaker creatively, nor the audience narratively. The only guys having fun with 3D are Cameron and Pace, cause they will earn from it. Everyone else will just have technical problems or dislike the films for a ridiculous effect that has no narrative value and does not even ressemble our human vision. I saw "Hugo" a few days ago. It´s a great film without the effect. The 3D is used brilliantly for the first time in this picture, but it completely distracts from the story. Please: Do us all a favor and abandon 3D. It´s childsplay. It´s money laundering. It´s THX all over. My problem in the first place:
Nobody really needs 3D. The more I listen to Cameron/Pace, the more I feel like I am being sold on their new business plan which basically tries to make sure, that they profit from every single big budget 3D-film that is ever going to be shot in the future.
Quite a clever strategy, I have to say: First you make propaganda in order to install 3D, which nobody needs. Neither the filmmaker creatively, nor the audience narratively.
The only guys having fun with 3D are Cameron and Pace, cause they will earn from it. Everyone else will just have technical problems or dislike the films for a ridiculous effect that has no narrative value and does not even ressemble our human vision.
I saw “Hugo” a few days ago. It´s a great film without the effect. The 3D is used brilliantly for the first time in this picture, but it completely distracts from the story.
Please: Do us all a favor and abandon 3D. It´s childsplay. It´s money laundering. It´s THX all over.

]]> Comment on James Cameron & Vince Pace : 3D cameras & workflows (part 1 of 2) by Benjamin B http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2012/02/11/james-cameron-vince-pace-3d-cameras-workflows-part-1-of-2/#comment-1471 Benjamin B Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:14:18 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=2126#comment-1471 Thank you Barbaros, I didn't ask that exact question, however my experience is that editors need a quiet room to work... but that this quiet room is often close to the set, be it 3D or 2D. All the best, Benjamin Thank you Barbaros,

I didn’t ask that exact question, however my experience is that editors need a quiet room to work… but that this quiet room is often close to the set, be it 3D or 2D.

All the best,

Benjamin

]]> Comment on James Cameron & Vince Pace : 3D cameras & workflows (part 1 of 2) by Barbaros Gokdemir http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2012/02/11/james-cameron-vince-pace-3d-cameras-workflows-part-1-of-2/#comment-1470 Barbaros Gokdemir Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:25:00 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=2126#comment-1470 Great interview! Thanks for sharing! I am wondering about the editorial process of 3D film productions. What is their standpoint in a 3D production film? Do they have to be on the set as well? Or could they continue to work on their own facilities? Great interview! Thanks for sharing! I am wondering about the editorial process of 3D film productions. What is their standpoint in a 3D production film? Do they have to be on the set as well? Or could they continue to work on their own facilities?

]]> Comment on 3D Workshop: Faraway Flatness, Faraway Softness by Benjamin B http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2011/12/30/3d-workshop-2-test-footage/#comment-1166 Benjamin B Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:28:42 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=1963#comment-1166 Thank you Alvaro. It's helpful for me to get comments. Gracias por su atencion Benjamin Thank you Alvaro.

It’s helpful for me to get comments.

Gracias por su atencion

Benjamin

]]> Comment on 3D Workshop: Faraway Flatness, Faraway Softness by Benjamin B http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2011/12/30/3d-workshop-2-test-footage/#comment-1165 Benjamin B Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:24:28 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=1963#comment-1165 Thank you Prasanna. It's good to know that the blog is of interest. Cheers Benjamin PS: I looked at a map and I now know where Chennai is :-) Thank you Prasanna.
It’s good to know that the blog is of interest.

Cheers

Benjamin

PS: I looked at a map and I now know where Chennai is :-)

]]> Comment on 3D Workshop: Faraway Flatness, Faraway Softness by alvaro http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2011/12/30/3d-workshop-2-test-footage/#comment-1156 alvaro Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:32:50 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=1963#comment-1156 Thanks a lot to share tour experience and knowledge. Cheers from Chile, alvaro Thanks a lot to share tour experience and knowledge.

Cheers from Chile,

alvaro

]]> Comment on 3D Workshop: Faraway Flatness, Faraway Softness by prasanna http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/2011/12/30/3d-workshop-2-test-footage/#comment-1153 prasanna Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:59:35 +0000 http://www.theasc.com/asc_blog/thefilmbook/?p=1963#comment-1153 hello sir this is Prasanna S Nathan from chennai (tamilnadu,INDIA) i am a tamil film maker very nice blog very interested news from ur blog hello sir
this is Prasanna S Nathan from chennai (tamilnadu,INDIA) i am a tamil film maker very nice blog very interested news from ur blog

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